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Sopranos 25 Years
Tony Soprano sits in Dr. Melfi's office, a box of tissues on the table between them, as he grapples with the complexities of his life.. Annie Wright trauma therapy

The Sopranos Did Therapy Better Than Therapy: A Trauma Therapist on Tony, Dr. Melfi, and 25 Years Later

SUMMARY

Twenty-five years on, ‘The Sopranos’ still resonates. As a trauma therapist, I see how its portrayal of Tony Soprano’s therapy, though imperfect, offered profound insights into family trauma and the limits of traditional talk therapy. It’s a masterclass in what happens when systems reward dysfunction.

Last reviewed: June 2026 by Annie Wright, LMFT

The Enduring Echo of the Bing

The ice clinks in Tony Soprano’s glass, the hum of the Bada Bing’s air conditioning a constant, almost comforting drone. He’s just had another panic attack, another stark reminder that despite his outward power and control, something deeply unsettling churns beneath the surface. This is where we, the audience, were first introduced to the complex, contradictory world of ‘The Sopranos’ 25 years ago. As a trauma therapist, I remember being immediately captivated, not just by the drama, but by the show’s audacious decision to place a mob boss in therapy. It was a bold move, one that forever changed television and, in many ways, our collective understanding of mental health and its intricate ties to family and culture. You might have felt a similar pull, recognizing the raw, often uncomfortable truths it presented about human nature.

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What followed was a masterclass in ambiguity, a narrative that refused easy answers or simple diagnoses. We watched Tony grapple with his demons, his family, and the brutal realities of his chosen profession, all under the watchful, often exasperated, eye of Dr. Jennifer Melfi. This wasn’t just entertainment; it was a cultural phenomenon that dared to ask profound questions about morality, identity, and the pervasive impact of early life experiences. Twenty-five years later, the show’s clinical insights remain remarkably potent, offering a mirror to our own struggles and the often-unseen forces shaping our lives. It’s a testament to the show’s creators that it still feels so relevant.

The brilliance of ‘The Sopranos’ lay in its unflinching portrayal of a man whose entire system, his family, his business, his very identity, was built upon and rewarded profound dysfunction. Dr. Melfi, for all her clinical acumen, was operating within a paradigm that, while valuable for many, was fundamentally ill-equipped to dismantle the deeply entrenched patterns that defined Tony’s existence. You might recognize this dynamic in your own life or the lives of those you care about: the individual seeking change, but embedded in a system that actively resists it. It’s a conundrum I see frequently in my therapy work.

This isn’t to say that talk therapy is ineffective; far from it. But ‘The Sopranos’ illustrated, with painful accuracy, its limits when faced with a client whose external world actively reinforces their internal pathology. Tony’s ‘solutions’ to his problems were often violent, self-serving, and ultimately destructive, yet they were consistently rewarded by his environment. This creates a feedback loop that is incredibly difficult to break, even with the best therapeutic intentions. You might be wondering, then, what could have possibly helped Tony? This is a question the show grappled with, and one we’ll explore further as we delve into its lasting legacy.

Dr. Melfi’s Dilemma: Insight vs. Impact

Dr. Melfi’s dedication to Tony, despite the ethical tightropes she constantly walked, was admirable. She offered him a space for reflection, a rare opportunity for self-examination in a life devoid of genuine introspection. Her approach, rooted in traditional psychodynamic therapy, aimed to provide insight into Tony’s past, particularly his relationship with his mother, Livia. She meticulously unpacked his dreams, his anxieties, and his often-repressed emotions, hoping that understanding the ‘why’ would lead to a shift in his ‘what’. It’s a common and often effective therapeutic strategy, one that many of you might have experienced or considered.

However, the show brilliantly illustrated the limitations of insight-based therapy when the client’s external reality is so profoundly pathological. Tony could understand *why* he was angry, *why* he felt depressed, *why* his mother’s manipulation scarred him, but this understanding rarely translated into sustained behavioral change. His world, the ‘family’ he led, actively rewarded his aggression, his ruthlessness, and his emotional detachment. How do you integrate insight into a life that demands the very behaviors you’re trying to understand and change? It’s a question that challenges even the most skilled clinician.

Melfi’s frustration, palpable throughout the series, stemmed from this fundamental disconnect. She was trying to help Tony heal, but his environment was constantly re-wounding him, reinforcing the very patterns she sought to disrupt. This dynamic is a crucial lesson for anyone considering therapy: individual work is powerful, but its impact can be significantly blunted if the broader system in which you operate remains toxic or unsupportive. You might find yourself in a similar situation, making progress in therapy only to feel pulled back by external forces.

The show didn’t just portray Melfi’s struggle; it also highlighted the inherent risks she faced. Her professional boundaries were constantly tested, her personal safety occasionally threatened. This raises important questions about the ethical responsibilities of therapists working with clients whose lives are entangled in criminal or violent systems. It’s a stark reminder that clinical betrayal can take many forms, not just from the therapist, but from the system surrounding the client. Melfi’s journey was a powerful, albeit fictional, exploration of these complex ethical dilemmas.

DEFINITION TRAUMA BONDING

A strong emotional attachment that develops between an abuser and the abused, often characterized by cycles of abuse, intermittent reinforcement, and a distorted sense of loyalty or dependence. This concept is explored by Patrick Carnes, PhD, psychologist, in his work on sexual addiction and abuse.

In plain terms: When you feel a deep, confusing connection to someone who hurts you, often because they also show you glimmers of kindness or care, making it hard to leave or even see the harm clearly.

The Livia Legacy: A Mother’s Shadow

Livia Soprano, Tony’s mother, was a character so profoundly toxic she became a benchmark for maternal dysfunction. Chase got it chillingly right: Livia was a master manipulator, a woman whose emotional neglect and psychological abuse left an indelible mark on Tony. Her constant negativity, her victim mentality, and her inability to experience genuine joy or empathy created a childhood environment that was profoundly traumatizing. You might recognize echoes of Livia in the stories of clients like Camille, who describes a mother who weaponized guilt and always found a way to turn Camille’s successes into her own grievances.

Livia’s impact wasn’t just emotional; it was systemic. She modeled a worldview where trust was a weakness, vulnerability was dangerous, and everyone was out to get you. Tony internalized these lessons, shaping his personality and his leadership style. This is a classic example of intergenerational trauma, where the wounds of one generation are passed down, often unconsciously, to the next. The show doesn’t just tell us this; it shows us, in agonizing detail, the ripple effect of Livia’s pathology on Tony and his children.

Her consistent undermining of Tony, her refusal to acknowledge his accomplishments, and her outright attempts to have him killed, painted a portrait of a truly malignant parent. This isn’t just about ‘bad parenting’; it’s about a form of narcissistic parenting that leaves deep, complex wounds. Tony’s panic attacks, his depression, and his struggles with intimacy can all be traced back to the emotional wasteland Livia created. You might see how this kind of upbringing can make it incredibly difficult to form healthy attachments or trust others.

The show’s depiction of Livia was so accurate that it became a touchstone for discussions about toxic family dynamics. It laid bare the insidious nature of emotional abuse, demonstrating how a parent can inflict profound harm without ever laying a hand on their child. If you’ve ever felt like your own family history is a complex web of unresolved issues, you’re not alone. The Sopranos gave us a language, albeit a fictional one, to begin to understand these deeply painful realities. For a deeper dive into this, I’ve written extensively on Livia Soprano and narcissistic mothers.

DEFINITION INTERGENERATIONAL TRAUMA

The transmission of trauma and its effects across generations within a family or community, where the psychological and emotional impacts of past traumatic events are passed down, sometimes unconsciously, to subsequent generations. This concept is central to the work of Yehuda, Rachel, PhD, researcher, and her research on the biological and psychological effects of trauma.

In plain terms: The invisible hand of the past, where the pain and unresolved issues from your grandparents’ or parents’ lives show up in your own, even if you don’t know the full story.

Tony’s System: A Web of Reinforcement

Tony’s ‘system’ was a self-perpetuating machine of dysfunction. His role as a mob boss demanded aggression, paranoia, and a ruthless suppression of empathy, all traits that Livia had inadvertently cultivated. When he tried to change, even subtly, his world pushed back. His crew needed him to be ‘the boss,’ his family benefited from his ill-gotten gains, and his own internal narrative, shaped by years of trauma, told him that vulnerability was a death sentence. This is why individual therapy, while offering valuable insight, often struggles to create lasting change when the broader system remains unchanged. Consider Elena, who, despite making strides in therapy to set boundaries with her demanding family, found herself constantly undermined by their collective resistance to her newfound assertiveness.

The show masterfully illustrated how Tony’s ‘work’ provided a perverse form of stability and meaning, despite its inherent violence and immorality. It was a world where his pathology was not just tolerated, but celebrated. This is a critical point for understanding trauma: often, the very behaviors that cause us pain are also the ones that have, at some point, served a protective function or provided a sense of belonging. For Tony, being a mob boss was a way to feel powerful, to control his environment, and to avoid the terrifying vulnerability he experienced as a child. This is a common dynamic in family trauma.

Dr. Melfi recognized this systemic reinforcement, often expressing her frustration that Tony would return to his ‘life’ after each session, undoing much of the therapeutic work. It’s like trying to clean a wound while the patient keeps re-injuring themselves. This isn’t a failure of therapy, but a stark illustration of its limits when the client’s environment actively sabotages their progress. You might have experienced this yourself: making personal changes, only to find your family or social circle resisting your evolution, perhaps even subtly punishing you for it.

The genius of ‘The Sopranos’ was in showing, rather than telling, how deeply entrenched these systemic patterns can be. It wasn’t just Tony who was sick; it was the entire ecosystem he inhabited. This perspective is vital for anyone seeking genuine change: you can’t just treat the individual without considering the broader context. That’s why a holistic approach, looking at all aspects of your life, is so crucial. It’s a lesson that extends far beyond the fictional world of the Sopranos and into our own real-world struggles for healing and growth. If you’re looking for more support in navigating these complex issues, consider exploring my online course.

DEFINITION NARCISSISTIC PARENTING

A parenting style characterized by a parent’s excessive self-focus, grandiosity, lack of empathy, and a tendency to use their children to fulfill their own needs and desires, often leading to emotional neglect or abuse. This dynamic is thoroughly examined by Karyl McBride, PhD, LMFT, in her work on daughters of narcissistic mothers.

In plain terms: When a parent sees their child as an extension of themselves, using them to boost their own ego or meet their own needs, rather than truly seeing and nurturing the child as an individual.

This is why trauma scholars such as Judith Herman, MD and Bessel van der Kolk, MD are useful companions for reading pop culture: both make clear, in different ways, that trauma is not only an event in the past but a present-tense pattern in the body, relationships, memory, and agency. Their work helps keep the analysis grounded in clinical humility rather than turning art into a diagnostic parlor game.

Beyond the Couch: The Show’s Clinical Accuracy

Twenty-five years ago, ‘The Sopranos’ offered a strangely accurate portrait of the limits of insight-based therapy with someone whose system rewards dysfunction. It showed us that understanding *why* you are the way you are isn’t always enough to fundamentally change *who* you are, especially when your external world actively reinforces your pathology. This wasn’t a condemnation of therapy itself, but a nuanced exploration of its challenges when faced with deeply entrenched patterns and a client whose survival mechanisms are intertwined with their problematic behaviors. You might have noticed this dynamic in your own life, where intellectual understanding doesn’t always translate to emotional or behavioral shifts.

The show’s clinical accuracy extended beyond Tony’s individual sessions. It depicted the pervasive nature of intergenerational trauma with chilling precision, showing how Livia’s unresolved issues manifested in Tony’s life, and subsequently in his children’s. The cycles of violence, emotional neglect, and manipulation were not just plot devices; they were a stark reflection of real-world family dynamics. It highlighted how trauma isn’t just an event, but a legacy that can shape generations, often unconsciously. This depth of portrayal was groundbreaking for television at the time.

Furthermore, ‘The Sopranos’ was prescient in its depiction of the therapist’s own struggles and ethical dilemmas. Dr. Melfi’s emotional toll, her moments of doubt, and her constant wrestling with professional boundaries were incredibly realistic. It reminded us that therapists are human, too, navigating complex emotional landscapes alongside their clients. This nuanced portrayal helped demystify therapy for many viewers, showing it as a challenging, often messy, but ultimately human endeavor. It’s a far cry from the stereotypical, all-knowing therapist often seen in media.

The series also subtly underscored the concept of clinical betrayal, not necessarily by Melfi, but by the system that Tony was embedded in. His ‘family’ constantly betrayed his trust, his attempts at growth, and his very humanity. This external betrayal, combined with his internal struggles, created a nearly insurmountable barrier to lasting change. It’s a powerful reminder that healing is not just an individual journey, but one deeply influenced by the trustworthiness and safety of our surrounding environment. If you’re struggling with similar issues, you might find my trauma quiz helpful.

DEFINITION SYSTEMS THEORY

A framework for understanding human behavior and relationships by viewing individuals as part of larger interconnected systems, such as families, communities, or organizations. It posits that problems are often a symptom of systemic dysfunction rather than solely individual pathology. Murray Bowen, MD, psychiatrist, is a foundational figure in family systems theory.

In plain terms: Thinking about how everyone in a family or group influences each other, and how a problem one person has might actually be a symptom of something bigger going on in the whole system.

“Tell me, what is it you plan to do / with your one wild and precious life?”

Mary Oliver, The Summer Day

In one composite clinical vignette, Priya (name and details have been changed for confidentiality) noticed that the story stayed with her because it mirrored a private pattern she had normalized for years: staying articulate, useful, and calm while her body kept registering threat. The point was not to diagnose a character or herself from the couch. It was to use the story as a safer third object, a way to say, “Something about this feels familiar,” before she was ready to say the whole thing directly.

Both/And: The Power and Peril of Pop Culture

Both/And: The Power and Peril of Pop Culture in Shaping Our Understanding of Mental Health. ‘The Sopranos’ undeniably brought therapy into the mainstream conversation, demystifying it for many who might have otherwise viewed it with suspicion or stigma. It normalized the idea that even powerful, seemingly invulnerable individuals can struggle with their mental health and seek professional help. This was a significant step forward, opening doors for countless individuals to consider their own therapeutic journeys. You might recall how revolutionary this felt at the time, seeing such raw vulnerability on screen.

However, the show also presented a complex, sometimes frustrating, view of therapy’s efficacy. While it accurately depicted the insights gained, it also showed the profound difficulty of translating those insights into sustained behavioral change, particularly when the client’s environment actively counteracts therapeutic progress. This ‘both/and’ perspective is crucial: pop culture can illuminate and educate, but it can also inadvertently create unrealistic expectations or foster cynicism if not viewed through a critical lens. It’s a delicate balance that creators must constantly navigate.

What 25 years of television has built on Tony’s foundation is a richer, more nuanced landscape of mental health portrayals. Shows like ‘Succession’ and ‘Ted Lasso’ have continued to explore the intricacies of family trauma, the challenges of leadership, and the human need for connection, often with greater emphasis on systemic issues. Tony Soprano walked so that characters like Kendall Roy could run, grappling with their own inherited dysfunctions and the pressures of their respective worlds. This evolution is a testament to ‘The Sopranos” enduring influence.

The show’s legacy is not just in its entertainment value, but in its profound contribution to our cultural discourse on mental health, family dynamics, and the complexities of human nature. It forced us to confront uncomfortable truths about power, morality, and the often-invisible forces that shape our lives. It’s a testament to its enduring impact that we are still dissecting its clinical insights a quarter-century later. If you’re interested in exploring these themes further, I encourage you to sign up for my newsletter.

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The Systemic Lens: Why Individual Therapy Falls Short

The Systemic Lens: Why Individual Therapy Falls Short for Tony and Many Others. Tony Soprano’s journey with Dr. Melfi was a powerful, albeit tragic, illustration of why individual therapy, while vital, often isn’t enough when a client is enmeshed in a highly dysfunctional system. His ‘family’,both biological and criminal, was a complex web of reinforcement for his problematic behaviors. Every attempt at genuine change was met with resistance, subtle sabotage, or outright threats to his status and safety. You can’t heal a part without acknowledging the whole, and Tony’s ‘whole’ was deeply sick.

This is where a systemic lens becomes crucial. It recognizes that an individual’s symptoms are often a manifestation of broader relational or environmental dysfunctions. For Tony, his panic attacks and depression weren’t just personal failings; they were cries for help from a system that was crushing him, even as it rewarded him. Without addressing the systemic pressures, the individual is left trying to swim against a powerful current, making lasting change incredibly difficult. This is a core tenet of my work with clients.

Imagine trying to recover from addiction while living in a house where everyone else is actively using. Or trying to build self-esteem when your family constantly undermines you. This is the challenge Tony faced. His ‘therapy’ was a weekly hour of insight, but his ‘life’ was a constant, 24/7 reinforcement of his pathology. The show implicitly argued for the need to address the system, not just the individual, a concept that has become increasingly central to modern trauma-informed care. It’s why I often emphasize the importance of understanding your own relational ecosystem.

While Tony Soprano wasn’t going to dismantle the mob, the show’s enduring lesson is that true healing often requires a shift in one’s environment or a radical re-evaluation of one’s place within it. For many of us, this might mean setting boundaries, seeking new communities, or even making difficult decisions about who we allow into our inner circle. It’s about recognizing that your well-being isn’t solely an individual responsibility, but a dynamic interplay between you and your world. This systemic perspective is something I explore in my executive coaching practice as well.

Looking Back, Moving Forward: The Sopranos’ Lasting Imprint

Looking Back, Moving Forward: The Sopranos’ Lasting Imprint. Twenty-five years later, ‘The Sopranos’ remains a cultural touchstone, a series that dared to explore the darkest corners of the human psyche and the complex interplay between individual pathology and systemic dysfunction. Its portrayal of Tony Soprano’s therapy, though ultimately inconclusive, offered profound insights into the limits of insight-based work when the client’s environment actively rewards their illness. It was a bold, often uncomfortable, but ultimately honest depiction of the challenges of true change. You might still find yourself pondering its ending, a testament to its enduring power.

The show’s legacy is multifaceted. It paved the way for more nuanced portrayals of mental health on television, inspiring a generation of creators to delve deeper into the complexities of human suffering and resilience. It also sparked countless conversations about family trauma, narcissistic parenting, and the insidious nature of intergenerational wounds. For many, it was their first exposure to these concepts, framed within a compelling narrative that made them accessible and relatable. This kind of cultural impact is truly rare.

As a trauma therapist, I often revisit ‘The Sopranos’ for its unflinching honesty and its subtle clinical lessons. It reminds me that healing is rarely linear, that systems are powerful, and that sometimes, insight alone isn’t enough to break deeply entrenched patterns. It underscores the importance of a holistic approach, one that considers not just the individual, but the entire ecosystem in which they operate. It’s a show that continues to inform my understanding of the human condition and the therapeutic process. You can connect with me to discuss these ideas further.

So, what is the ultimate takeaway from ‘The Sopranos’ 25 years on? Perhaps it’s that true change requires more than just understanding; it requires a willingness to confront and potentially dismantle the very systems that sustain our dysfunction. It’s a call to courage, to look beyond individual symptoms and address the root causes, both internal and external. And in that, ‘The Sopranos’ did therapy better than therapy, offering a powerful, if fictional, roadmap for understanding the profound challenges of healing in a world that often rewards our wounds. As Mary Oliver asked, ‘Tell me, what is it you plan to do / with your one wild and precious life?’

Clinically, this is where The Sopranos Did Therapy Better Than Therapy: A Trauma Therapist on Tony, Dr. Melfi, and 25 Years Later becomes useful rather than merely interesting. When I sit with driven women who recognize themselves in this kind of story, the work is rarely about deciding whether a character was good or bad. The more useful question is what your body learned to do in the presence of love, danger, obligation, longing, and shame. That question belongs beside deeper resources such as C1 C5 S9 clinical_betrayal, because the cultural text is only the doorway; the real work is learning what your own nervous system has been carrying.

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Q: Did Tony Soprano’s therapy with Dr. Melfi actually help him?

A: Tony Soprano’s therapy with Dr. Melfi provided him with significant insight into his past, particularly his relationship with his mother, Livia. He gained a deeper understanding of the roots of his panic attacks, depression, and anger. However, the show deliberately left the question of ‘help’ ambiguous. While he achieved intellectual understanding, his behavioral patterns and core identity as a mob boss remained largely unchanged. This highlights the show’s nuanced portrayal of therapy’s limits when a client’s external system actively reinforces their dysfunction, making lasting behavioral change incredibly challenging despite increased self-awareness.

Q: What did ‘The Sopranos’ get right about family trauma?

A: ‘The Sopranos’ masterfully depicted the insidious nature of intergenerational trauma, particularly through the character of Livia Soprano. It showed how Livia’s narcissistic parenting, emotional manipulation, and profound negativity created a deeply traumatized environment for Tony, shaping his personality, his relationships, and his coping mechanisms. The show illustrated how these wounds were then passed down to his own children, perpetuating cycles of dysfunction. It accurately portrayed how unresolved family trauma can manifest as anxiety, depression, and destructive behaviors, even when the individual is outwardly successful or powerful.

Q: How did Dr. Melfi’s approach to therapy reflect real-world clinical practice?

A: Dr. Melfi’s approach largely reflected traditional psychodynamic therapy, focusing on exploring Tony’s past, dreams, and unconscious motivations to gain insight into his present-day struggles. Her careful boundary setting, her attempts to remain neutral, and her genuine concern for Tony’s well-being were all consistent with ethical clinical practice. However, the show also highlighted the immense challenges of working with a client whose life is enmeshed in criminal activity, showcasing the ethical dilemmas and personal toll on the therapist. Her use of supervision and consultation also mirrored real-world practices for complex cases.

Q: Why is ‘The Sopranos’ still relevant to discussions about mental health today?

A: ‘The Sopranos’ remains highly relevant because it was groundbreaking in its realistic, complex portrayal of mental health struggles, particularly for a male protagonist in a position of power. It normalized the idea of seeking therapy and brought discussions about anxiety, depression, and family trauma into mainstream culture. The show’s nuanced depiction of the limits of individual therapy when faced with systemic dysfunction continues to resonate, informing contemporary discussions about holistic and trauma-informed approaches to healing. Its exploration of toxic family dynamics and intergenerational patterns is as pertinent now as it was 25 years ago.

Q: What is the main lesson for trauma therapists from ‘The Sopranos’?

A: For trauma therapists, ‘The Sopranos’ offers a powerful lesson in the importance of a systemic lens. It demonstrates that while individual insight is valuable, it may not be sufficient for lasting change when a client’s environment actively rewards their pathology or undermines their therapeutic progress. The show underscores the need to consider the broader context, family, culture, profession, in which a client operates. It highlights the challenges of working with deeply entrenched patterns and the potential for therapeutic ‘failure’ not due to a lack of effort, but due to insurmountable external pressures. It also reminds us of the emotional and ethical complexities inherent in the work.

  • Chase, David. The Sopranos. HBO, 1999, 2007.
  • Herman, Judith Lewis. Trauma and Recovery: The Aftermath of Violence, From Domestic Abuse to Political Terror. Basic Books, 1992.
  • Van der Kolk, Bessel A. The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma. Viking, 2014.
  • McBride, Karyl. Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers. Free Press, 2009.

References

Peer-Reviewed Research (Vancouver)

  1. Cloitre M, Stolbach BC, Herman JL, van der Kolk B, Pynoos R, Wang J, et al. A developmental approach to complex PTSD: childhood and adult cumulative trauma as predictors of symptom complexity. J Trauma Stress. 2009;22(5):399-408. doi:10.1002/jts.20444. PMID: 19795402.
  2. van der Kolk BA, Wang JB, Yehuda R, Bedrosian L, Coker AR, Harrison C, et al. Effects of MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD on self-experience. PLoS One. 2024;19(1):e0295926. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0295926. PMID: 38198456.

Books & Cultural Sources (Chicago Author-Date)

  • Oliver, Mary. Devotions. Little, Brown Book Group Limited, 2017.
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About the Author

Annie Wright, LMFT

LMFT · Relational Trauma Specialist · W.W. Norton Author

Helping driven women finally feel as good as their résumé looks.

Annie Wright is a licensed psychotherapist (LMFT #95719) and trauma-informed executive coach with over 15,000 clinical hours. She works with driven women. Including Silicon Valley leaders, physicians, and entrepreneurs. In repairing the psychological foundations beneath their impressive lives. Annie is the founder and former CEO of Evergreen Counseling, a multimillion-dollar trauma-informed therapy center she built, scaled, and successfully exited. A regular contributor to Psychology Today, her expert commentary has appeared in USA Today, Forbes, Business Insider, Inc., NBC, and The Information. She is currently writing her first book with W.W. Norton.

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