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Emotional Unavailability in Driven Women

Annie Wright therapy related image
Annie Wright therapy related image

Emotional Unavailability in Driven Women

Woman sitting alone by a window, lost in thought — Annie Wright trauma-informed therapy

Emotional Unavailability in Driven Women

LAST UPDATED: APRIL 2026

SUMMARY

When driven women retreat into their minds to avoid emotional intimacy, it’s often a protective shield shaped by attachment wounds and unspoken grief. Understanding this pattern opens the door to reconnecting with vulnerability and reclaiming emotional presence in relationships.

The Safe Refuge of Intellect

Maren sits across from her partner, the soft glow of evening light filtering through the Cambridge apartment window. Her hands rest on the table, fingers barely twitching, her eyes steady but distant. Her partner’s voice edges into the space between them, hesitant yet searching: “Can you feel that with me?” Maren’s heart races, but not with warmth. Instead, a familiar chill creeps up her spine, the old impulse to retreat activating instantly.

She knows grief—not as a vague concept but as a precise neurochemical storm. The flood of cortisol, the drop in oxytocin, the way the amygdala hijacks her system, screaming danger. She can name the pathways, trace the arc from attachment wound to emotional shutdown. In her mind, she explains it all: her partner’s request triggers a cascade of stress hormones, activating the Four Exiled Selves, particularly the part that learned early on never to trust vulnerability.

Yet her body betrays her words. When asked to *feel* alongside someone she loves, Maren freezes. The intellect becomes her fortress. Behind layers of logic and clinical detachment, she’s safe—unseen, unshakable, untouchable. It’s the only place where emotions can’t overwhelm or expose the fragile parts she’s learned to hide.

In my work with women like Maren, this pattern is common. Driven and ambitious, they excel at parsing emotions in theory but stumble when it comes to living them in relationship. Emotional unavailability isn’t a failing; it’s a survival strategy. It’s a way the Proverbial House of Life builds walls when the foundations feel shaky. Understanding this dynamic is the first step toward dismantling those walls and reclaiming the richness of emotional connection.

When the Mind Becomes a Fortress: Intellectualization and Emotional Distance

Maren sits in my office, her fingers tapping rhythmically on the armrest, eyes darting to the clock every few seconds. A 38-year-old physician-scientist from Cambridge, she embodies drive and precision. Yet, beneath her sharp intellect lies a fortress built from layers of intellectualization—a defense mechanism she wields to keep feelings at bay. Maren talks about her stress in clinical terms, dissecting every emotion as if it were a complex scientific problem. But when I ask her how she feels, the room falls silent.

Intellectualization is a common strategy among driven women like Maren, who are accustomed to solving problems with their minds. In clinical terms, it involves focusing on the rational and factual aspects of an experience to avoid the rawness of emotional pain. This defense mechanism can create a false sense of control, allowing one to stay safely in the realm of thought, far from the vulnerability of feeling.

DEFINITION

INTELLECTUALIZATION

Intellectualization is a mature defense mechanism first extensively described by Anna Freud, MD, in her 1936 work on ego defenses. It involves detaching from emotional content by focusing on logical analysis and abstract thought.

In plain terms: It’s when you talk about your feelings in a way that sounds smart and thoughtful but doesn’t actually connect you to what you’re truly feeling inside.

There’s a crucial difference between talking about feelings and actually feeling them. In my practice, I often see driven women who can articulate emotions with precision—“I feel overwhelmed and anxious due to workload”—yet remain disconnected from the visceral experience accompanying those feelings. This separation keeps them safe from the vulnerability that emotional openness demands, but it also creates a subtle but persistent numbness.

Driven women tend to retreat to their minds because it’s a place where they’re competent and in control. When emotions become unpredictable or overwhelming, the mind offers a sanctuary of order and logic. For Maren, intellectualization isn’t just a habit; it’s a survival tool forged through years of managing high-stress environments where emotional expression felt like a liability.

But the cost of emotional unavailability is steep. Emotional numbness can erode intimate relationships, fuel loneliness, and deepen internal conflict. It also distances women from the fullness of their own experience, making it harder to access the rich tapestry of human connection and joy. In therapy, we work on reconnecting with the body—the primary home of feeling. Practices that bring awareness to breath, sensations, and movement help bridge the gap from mind to heart.

Reconnecting with the body isn’t about abandoning intellect; it’s about integrating it with embodied experience. When driven women like Maren learn to tolerate and explore their feelings safely, they unlock new dimensions of self-awareness and emotional resilience. This integration allows them to show up more fully—in relationships, in their work, and in their lives.

When the Mind Becomes a Fortress: Intellectualization and Emotional Retreat

Maren sits across from me, her fingers tapping lightly on the armrest, eyes steady but distant. A physician-scientist in Cambridge, she’s spent years mastering the language of data, hypotheses, and clinical trials. Yet, when it comes to her own feelings, she speaks as though describing a distant subject rather than something lived. This is intellectualization, a defense mechanism where the mind takes refuge in analysis to sidestep the messy terrain of emotion.

In my practice, I often see driven women like Maren default to intellectualization. It’s a way to maintain control and safety—feelings can feel unpredictable and overwhelming, especially when ambition demands clarity and precision. Talking about feelings becomes an exercise in abstraction rather than experience. We might hear a woman describe her sadness in clinical terms or dissect disappointment as if it were a research problem, always at arm’s length from the actual sensation. This distance serves a purpose: it shields her from vulnerability but also keeps her from truly connecting with herself and others.

The difference between talking about feelings and feeling them is profound. The first happens in the prefrontal cortex, the seat of reasoning; the second in the limbic system, where raw emotion lives. When driven women retreat to the mind, they bypass the limbic experience altogether. It’s as if their emotional self becomes an exiled tenant in the Proverbial House of Life—visible but never invited to the main floor. This intellectual avoidance may sustain productivity and achievement, but it comes with a cost.

Emotional unavailability doesn’t just create distance in relationships; it erodes internal cohesion. The Four Exiled Selves framework highlights how parts of our emotional experience can become split off when we rely too heavily on defense mechanisms like intellectualization. Over time, this disconnection leads to exhaustion, loneliness, and a subtle but persistent sense of emptiness. The body knows this dissonance, manifesting it as tension, fatigue, or even illness. Maren’s frequent headaches and tight shoulders are silent signatures of her disengagement from feeling.

Reconnecting with the body is the first step toward bridging this divide. In therapy, we work to gently invite the emotional self back from exile—not by abandoning the intellect, but by balancing it with somatic awareness. Practices like mindfulness, breath work, or grounding exercises can help a driven woman like Maren tune into the sensations beneath the cognitive surface. This somatic reconnection is essential for restoring emotional availability, enriching relationships, and reclaiming a fuller, more integrated self.

“Emotional intelligence is not the opposite of intelligence, it’s not the triumph of heart over head — it is the unique intersection of both.”

Travis Bradberry, Co-author of Emotional Intelligence 2.0

RESEARCH EVIDENCE

Peer-reviewed findings that inform this clinical framework:

  • Women more likely to want to break up due to emotional accessibility deficits (N=181) (PMID: 29867628)
  • Avoidance attachment positively associated with withdrawal strategy (β=0.41, p<0.001; N=175 couples) (PMID: 35173651)
  • Attachment insecurity associated with less frequent positive emotions (meta-analysis, 10 samples, N=3,215) (PMID: 36401808)
  • Social isolation threatens intimate relationships by depriving emotional support from networks (PMID: 34271282)
  • r = .58 (p < .001) between emotionally unavailable parenting and attachment insecurity (N=414) (Sharma N, Yildiz E, J Adolesc Youth Psychol Stud)

When the Mind Becomes a Fortress: Intellectualization and Emotional Distance

Maren sits across from me, her gaze steady but distant, as she walks me through her latest research project—every detail precise, every term impeccably delivered. When I gently ask how she’s feeling about the mounting pressure at work, she pivots smoothly back to data and outcomes. This is intellectualization in action, a defense mechanism that many driven women like Maren use to shield themselves from vulnerable feelings. In my clinical experience, this mental fortress can both protect and isolate.

DEFINITION

INTELLECTUALIZATION

Intellectualization is a defense mechanism identified in psychoanalytic theory, notably by Anna Freud, MD, where an individual focuses on abstract thinking and reasoning to avoid experiencing uncomfortable emotions.

In plain terms: It’s when you talk about your feelings without actually feeling them, using your mind as a shield to keep emotions at arm’s length.

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Talking about feelings isn’t the same as actually feeling them. I often see driven women who can articulate every nuance of an emotional experience, but the emotions themselves feel like distant concepts rather than lived realities. This distinction is crucial because emotional unavailability doesn’t mean a lack of emotions—it means a disconnect from experiencing and integrating them. For women like Maren, retreating to the mind offers control and safety in a world that often demands perfection and strength. But this safety comes at a cost.

When you habitually intellectualize, your body—the very ground of emotion in frameworks like the Proverbial House of Life and Terra Firma—can become alien territory. The Four Exiled Selves framework highlights how parts of ourselves get pushed away when we don’t permit full emotional engagement. Over time, this disconnection can manifest as anxiety, chronic tension, or a sense of emptiness that even success can’t fill. The mind’s fortress keeps feelings out, but it also blocks connection, both with ourselves and with others.

Reconnecting with the body is a vital step toward healing emotional unavailability. In therapy, we work on cultivating embodied awareness—learning to sense emotions not just as thoughts but as physical sensations. For Maren, this meant shifting from purely intellectual discussions to mindfulness exercises that invite her to notice tension in her shoulders or a quickening heartbeat. This isn’t about abandoning intellect; it’s about integrating it with feeling, allowing emotions to be present without overwhelming or disappearing. Only then can the fortress gates open, welcoming vulnerability alongside strength.

The Both/And of Emotional Unavailability in Driven Women

Maren, a 38-year-old physician-scientist from Cambridge, MA, sits across from me, her eyes bright with intelligence but guarded behind a wall of words. She talks—eloquently, passionately—about every detail of her work, her research, her ambitions. But when I gently ask about how she feels in her relationships, there’s a subtle shift. The conversation pivots to theories, to hypotheses, to abstract concepts. This is intellectualization, a defense mechanism I often see in driven women like Maren who retreat to the mind to avoid the vulnerability of feeling.

Intellectualization serves a very human purpose: it creates a safe distance from uncomfortable emotions. When feelings become too overwhelming, the mind steps in as a protective shield. For Maren, dissecting emotions under a clinical lens feels safer than sitting with their raw, unpredictable intensity. Yet, there’s a crucial difference between talking about feelings and actually feeling them. The former is an intellectual exercise; the latter demands a surrender to embodied experience, something many driven women have learned to sidestep.

Driven women often retreat to their minds because it’s where they’ve been trained to excel. The world rewards their analytical prowess, their problem-solving skills, their ability to compartmentalize. But this retreat comes at a cost. Emotional unavailability doesn’t just create distance in relationships; it breeds internal fragmentation. Within the framework of the Proverbial House of Life, when one part of ourselves—our feeling self—is exiled or underdeveloped, the whole structure becomes unstable. Maren’s body tenses when she talks about vulnerability, a silent signal that her emotional self is still waiting to be heard.

Reconnecting with the body is a vital part of healing emotional unavailability. We work on tuning into physical sensations, grounding exercises, and practices that invite feeling without judgment. This is about more than just “opening up” verbally—it’s about embodying emotions, allowing them to flow through us instead of being trapped in our minds. For driven women like Maren, learning to sit with discomfort, to tolerate the messiness of feelings, is a radical act of self-compassion and integration. It’s the both/and of this experience: honoring the mind’s brilliance while reclaiming the body’s wisdom, creating a fuller, more connected self.

The Systemic Lens: Intellectualization as a Defense Mechanism

Maren sits across from me in my office, her hands folded neatly on her lap, eyes bright with the spark of curiosity and analysis. As a 38-year-old physician-scientist in Cambridge, MA, she’s accustomed to dissecting complex problems with precision and logic. Yet, when I gently ask about her feelings, Maren immediately shifts gears—launching into detailed explanations about stress hormones, neurochemistry, and the impact of sleep deprivation on emotional regulation. She’s intellectualizing, and it’s a defense mechanism I see often in driven women like her.

In my clinical experience, intellectualization serves as a protective shield. It’s an attempt to manage overwhelming emotions by transforming them into ideas or concepts that feel safer to handle. For women who’ve been conditioned to succeed in demanding, competitive environments, feelings can seem too amorphous, too vulnerable. Talking about feelings becomes a stand-in for truly feeling them—an attempt to maintain control and avoid the discomfort of emotional exposure. This is especially true when societal norms reward women for being rational, composed, and self-sufficient, while discouraging emotional expressiveness that might be perceived as weakness or instability.

Driven women like Maren often retreat to their minds because their identity and self-worth are tightly bound to competence and achievement. The mind becomes a refuge where emotions are categorized, analyzed, and sometimes dismissed. This distance from the body and the heart, however, comes at a cost. Emotional unavailability can create barriers in intimate relationships, leaving partners feeling unseen or disconnected. It can also lead to internal fragmentation, where parts of the self remain exiled—unacknowledged and unheard—which aligns with the Four Exiled Selves framework I use in therapy. When emotions are intellectualized rather than felt, these exiled parts grow more isolated, undermining authentic connection.

Reconnecting with the body is a crucial step toward healing this divide. Through grounding exercises, mindfulness, and somatic awareness, Maren—and women like her—can start to inhabit their feelings instead of simply thinking about them. This process isn’t about abandoning intellect or insight; it’s about integrating the mind and body so that feelings become accessible allies rather than threats. From the Terra Firma perspective, cultivating this embodied presence anchors women in their emotional experience, making vulnerability a source of strength rather than fear.

When we view emotional unavailability through this systemic lens, it’s clear that it’s not just an individual struggle. It’s shaped by cultural expectations, gender norms, and the internalized messages that tell driven women they must always be “on,” always in control. Recognizing these forces allows us to approach healing with compassion and nuance—helping women like Maren embrace their full emotional spectrum and live more connected, fulfilling lives.

From Thought to Feeling: Reclaiming Your Emotional Life

Maren sits at her desk in Cambridge, surrounded by stacks of medical journals and research data. She can talk for hours about the latest breakthroughs in her field, dissecting complex theories with precision. Yet when it comes to her own feelings—loneliness, frustration, longing—she quickly redirects the conversation to something “more rational.” This intellectualization is a familiar shield for many driven women like Maren, a way to keep the messy, vulnerable parts safely at bay.

In my clinical work, I often see how intellectualization serves as a defense mechanism. It transforms raw, often overwhelming emotions into something “manageable” by the mind. Talking about feelings can feel safer than actually feeling them. But there’s a crucial difference: discussing emotions from a distance keeps us disconnected from our lived experience. It’s like reading a map instead of walking the terrain. The mind becomes a refuge, but it’s one that ultimately isolates us from the richness of emotional connection.

Driven and ambitious women frequently retreat to the intellectual realm because their lives demand constant performance and control. Emotions can feel unpredictable, even threatening. Yet this avoidance comes at a cost—emotional unavailability can erode intimacy, fuel inner emptiness, and perpetuate a cycle of loneliness despite external success. The Proverbial House of Life framework reminds us that emotional health requires integrating all parts of ourselves, not just the rational mind.

Healing begins with reconnecting to the body—the place where feelings live before they’re filtered through thought. Sensations, breath, and subtle shifts in tension offer clues to what’s beneath the surface. Practices like mindfulness, somatic experiencing, or guided movement help bring awareness back into the body’s wisdom. As we learn to sit with discomfort rather than intellectualize it away, we build resilience and deepen our capacity for authentic connection—both with ourselves and others.

If you recognize yourself in Maren’s story, know that this journey isn’t about abandoning your intellect. It’s about inviting your feelings to join you in the conversation. When you allow yourself to feel—even just a little at a time—you’re reclaiming a vital part of your emotional life. Together, we can explore this path forward with compassion and curiosity, creating space where your whole self can thrive. You’re not alone on this road, and the possibility of deeper connection and fulfillment is within reach.

Begin the work of relational trauma recovery.

If you’re beginning to see these patterns in yourself, my course guides you through the relational trauma recovery framework step by step.

In my work with driven, ambitious women — over 15,000 clinical hours — I’ve observed that relationship struggles are rarely about the relationship itself. They’re about the relational template that was installed long before she ever met her partner. The woman who chose a man who withholds affection didn’t make a mistake. She made a neurobiologically coherent choice: she chose the emotional climate that matched her nervous system’s definition of “love” — a definition that was written in a language of absence, condition, and intermittent reinforcement before she was old enough to speak.

Stephen Porges, PhD, neuroscientist at Indiana University and developer of Polyvagal Theory, describes how the nervous system uses “neuroception” — an unconscious process of evaluating safety and danger — to determine who feels familiar and who feels foreign. For the woman who grew up with a parent who was emotionally unpredictable, a steady, reliable partner doesn’t register as safe. He registers as boring. Unfamiliar. Wrong. While the partner who pulls away, who runs hot and cold, who keeps her guessing — he registers as home. Not because she wants drama. Because her nervous system only knows how to attach in the presence of uncertainty. (PMID: 7652107)

This is why the advice to “just choose better” is not only unhelpful — it’s physiologically naive. You cannot cognitively override a nervous system template that was installed before your prefrontal cortex was online. What you can do is work with a clinician who understands the template, who can help you see it in real time, and who can offer a corrective relational experience — a relationship where safety isn’t intermittent, where you don’t have to earn attunement, where your needs don’t make you “too much” — that slowly, over months and years, rewires the system from the inside out.

Bessel van der Kolk, MD, psychiatrist and trauma researcher at Boston University and author of The Body Keeps the Score, explains that traumatic relational experiences are stored not in narrative memory but in the body — in muscle tension, breathing patterns, startle responses, and the autonomic reactions that fire milliseconds before conscious thought can intervene. This is why a driven woman can intellectually know that her partner’s silence doesn’t mean he’s leaving, and still feel a cascade of panic that makes her chest tighten and her throat close. She isn’t being irrational. Her body is responding to a threat it learned to detect decades ago, in a different relationship, with a different person who looked nothing like the man sitting across from her at dinner. (PMID: 9384857)

The body keeps the score of every moment you were left, dismissed, overlooked, or made to feel that your needs were an inconvenience. And it keeps the score silently — without words, without context, without the narrative scaffolding that would allow the conscious mind to say: this feeling belongs to then, not now. This is what makes relational trauma so disorienting for the intelligent, driven woman. She can analyze geopolitical risk with precision. She can build a financial model in her sleep. But she cannot figure out why she freezes when her husband asks her what she needs — because the answer to that question lives in her body, not her mind.

Richard Schwartz, PhD, developer of Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy, describes how the psyche organizes itself into parts — protector parts that manage, control, and keep the system safe, and exiled parts that carry the original pain of not being loved the way she needed. For the driven woman in a relationship, the protector parts are often running the show: the part that monitors for rejection, the part that withdraws before she can be hurt, the part that performs independence so convincingly that even she forgets it’s a performance. (PMID: 23813465)

Underneath those protectors — and this is the part that most general therapy never reaches — are the exiled parts: the young, tender, desperate parts that still carry the grief of the child who wanted her mother’s warmth and learned to live without it, who wanted her father’s attention and learned to earn it through achievement instead. These exiled parts don’t disappear because she built a career. They don’t heal because she married a good man. They wait — sometimes for decades — until someone creates a safe enough container for them to finally speak.

That container is what trauma-informed therapy provides. Not strategies for better communication (though those come). Not tools for managing conflict (though those come too). The foundational work is creating a relationship — between her and her therapist — where the exile can finally be seen, witnessed, and unburdened. And when that happens, something shifts in her external relationships too. Not because she’s “fixed,” but because the part of her that was unconsciously running the relationship from a place of childhood terror is no longer in the driver’s seat.

What I want to name — because no one else in her life will — is that the relational patterns that brought her to this page are not character flaws. They are the logical, neurobiologically coherent outcomes of a childhood in which love was conditional, safety was earned, and her needs were treated as problems to be managed rather than signals to be honored. The woman who pushes people away learned that closeness is dangerous. The woman who clings learned that abandonment is imminent. The woman who performs independence learned that needing anyone is a liability. None of these are choices she made as an adult. They are adaptations she made as a child — brilliantly, necessarily, and at enormous cost.

Judith Herman, MD, psychiatrist at Harvard Medical School and author of Trauma and Recovery, writes that the first stage of healing from relational trauma is establishing safety — and that for many survivors, the therapeutic relationship itself is the first safe relationship they have ever experienced. For the driven woman, this is both the promise and the terror of therapy: the possibility of being fully known, without performance, without conditions, and discovering that she is still worthy of love. That possibility feels more dangerous than any boardroom, operating room, or courtroom she has ever walked into. And that is precisely why it matters. (PMID: 22729977)

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If what you’ve read here resonates, I want you to know that individual therapy and executive coaching are available for driven women ready to do this work. You can also explore my self-paced recovery courses or schedule a complimentary consultation to find the right fit.

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Q: What does emotional unavailability look like in driven women?

A: Emotional unavailability in driven women often shows up as difficulty expressing vulnerability, avoiding deep emotional conversations, or prioritizing work and goals over relationships. Clinically, this can be tied to protective parts of the self, like the Four Exiled Selves framework, where certain feelings are pushed away to maintain control. While ambition fuels success, it can also mask an underlying fear of emotional exposure or dependence, making authentic connection feel risky or secondary.

Q: Why do ambitious women struggle with emotional intimacy?

A: Ambitious women may struggle with emotional intimacy because their drive often demands self-reliance and control, which can conflict with the vulnerability intimacy requires. In therapy, we explore how the Terra Firma framework reveals the balance between autonomy and connection, and how past experiences might have led to emotional parts being exiled. This internal split makes opening up feel unsafe or distracting from goals, even though a fulfilling relationship needs both connection and independence.

Q: Can emotional unavailability be changed in driven women?

A: Yes, emotional unavailability can absolutely change. Therapy helps by gently reintroducing and integrating the exiled emotional parts, building awareness of internal barriers, and creating new patterns for vulnerability. Using the Proverbial House of Life framework, we work on developing a safe internal and relational environment. Change involves patience and courage, especially when ambition has long been a protective strategy, but it’s possible to cultivate both drive and emotional openness.

Q: How does emotional unavailability affect romantic relationships?

A: Emotional unavailability often leads to distance, misunderstandings, and frustration in romantic relationships. Partners may feel shut out or confused by the driven woman’s reluctance to share feelings or fully engage emotionally. Clinically, this can create a cycle where both partners feel disconnected. Addressing these patterns involves learning to recognize and communicate emotions safely, breaking down defenses built from the Four Exiled Selves to foster intimacy without sacrificing autonomy.

Q: What role does childhood play in emotional unavailability for ambitious women?

A: Childhood experiences often shape emotional availability. For driven women, early environments might have demanded performance, self-sufficiency, or emotional suppression to feel safe or valued. These dynamics can exile vulnerable parts of the self, as described in the Four Exiled Selves model. In therapy, revisiting these early experiences helps reclaim and integrate those lost emotional pieces, allowing women to bring fuller presence and emotional depth into adult relationships.

Q: What therapeutic approaches help with emotional unavailability in driven women?

A: Therapeutic approaches that focus on internal parts work, such as the Four Exiled Selves, alongside relational frameworks like the Proverbial House of Life, are effective. Therapy often involves building Terra Firma—groundedness in self and relationships—to safely explore vulnerability. Techniques include mindfulness, somatic awareness, and narrative work to reconnect with disowned emotions. This integrative approach supports driven women in balancing ambition with emotional presence and deepening intimacy.

Related Reading

Kohut, Heinz. The Analysis of the Self: A Systematic Approach to the Psychoanalytic Treatment of Narcissistic Personality Disorders. University of Chicago Press, 1971.

Bowlby, John. Attachment and Loss: Vol. 1. Attachment. Basic Books, 1969.

Brown, Brené. Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead. Avery, 2012.

Siegel, Daniel J. Mind: A Journey to the Heart of Being Human. W. W. Norton & Company, 2016.

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Annie Wright, LMFT

About the Author

Annie Wright, LMFT

LMFT #95719  ·  Relational Trauma Specialist  ·  W.W. Norton Author

Helping ambitious women finally feel as good as their résumé looks.

As a licensed psychotherapist (LMFT #95719), trauma-informed executive coach, and relational trauma specialist with over 15,000 clinical hours, she guides ambitious women — including Silicon Valley leaders, physicians, and entrepreneurs — in repairing the psychological foundations beneath their impressive lives. Annie is the founder and former CEO of Evergreen Counseling, a multimillion-dollar trauma-informed therapy center she built, scaled, and successfully exited. A regular contributor to Psychology Today, her expert commentary has appeared in Forbes, Business Insider, Inc., NBC, and The Information. She is currently writing her first book with W.W. Norton.

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